Growth Through Support

When: 10th March, 9 AM-10 AM PST
Where: LinkedIn Live
Panelists: Mo Mckibbin, Ahmad Shabazz

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Today, so this is pretty good. I think we missed a recording until now. So we do have God. He's so it's what I love about. The two of you are there is a data piece for which there are tools and stuff. And I can imagine corroborating data from many many data sources. What you were talking about more and probably weeks, and How far personal time to even bring out the data or maybe you have encountered other simple ways of doing it and giving that data to substantiate the argument and Ahmad from a change management point. 


There are tools and mediums and think you use the word medium here. So, mediums that have worked very well for you, and have you picked that based on what the You know about the company culture or have you seen certain things that fit in better? I mean, there are so many dependencies there, right? This is a variable-driven decision, right? A goes, whatever, your Omni-channel structure and model is today, cost capability maturity model where you are in growth. In terms of the organization. There are so many levers there to be had and discussed. What we do know. Fundamentally. You want him, you want to ultimately meet people where they engage you most want to do. You want to optimize That. Wow. Through some of my experiences, you know, we aim to sort of increase the scope of this idea of omnichannel, but yet, we're not meeting the thresholds of performing or optimizing in the channels that the people want to introduce themselves or engage Us in to be given. 


So it goes back to what I said earlier. A lot of this is kind of cyclical. Let's optimize and win on the basics. And so it depends where you're going, what you're trying to do, but I think it'll be on the culture. Right? And then it's also the willingness to either be Innovative, disruptive or lead the way, or if you're just looking to be status quo. Neither is incorrect, right? You just need an innocent comment upon us. When writing, we're coming up with these ideas and they strap, your stopping points might give me a few tools. 


If that has worked for you before we listen, we are social media by far today as the biggest reach is everyone using it properly or optimizing numbers. We know if you don't, you have to have that presence, but let's not let us know. And understand there's the good, bad and ugly with that. Because if something goes wrong, it's going to go. Buy something that goes right. They can go by. But if it goes wrong, also, I was just going to say that's so funny because I feel like social media is Full for the direct consumer but it's not that's not the channel for B2B. So it's just really really interesting. Anyway, continue. Yeah. I was going to go down, go down, and go down the path there, and then obviously we know despite what everyone may say and Depends. 


It depends on where you are global because there are nuances in terms of cultures and geographical locations. Self-service. Is this a huge push, right? Depending on where you are, we know at the end of the day, The phone human contact is so desirable now, right? Because we were locked up for two years, it's still the most costly. So how do you find that balance between human contact? Human touch and automation. This is where a lot of folks are focusing on and then let me then I'll this is a nice dovetail, which I'll pitch to you Mo are talking about B2B a lot of this is creating a Marketplace or a platform for that discussion to happen organically and you'll what you'll find is a lot of the And or challenges will be solved with either. Only You facilitate or handoff and it'll figure out at the very least. 


You'll know where you have an opportunity for improvement. So, what does that mean? We're talking blogs, right? We're talking in a chat room, we're talking, whatever it may be where you can create this Marketplace for great minds, think alike and by just buying organic and innate nature, we're going to solve things collectively because you're never alone. You're trying to figure something out. So I think that dovetails nicely into what you're talking about. going to be a perspective but no one understands. They are at the 80th percentile, whether it's B2B or b2c solving a problem and people want to get done fast, efficiently, and cheaply. That's the Crux of it. The 20% is the difference between B2B and b2c. Yeah, so I'm just going to go back to channels just briefly and I love what you said about Community because that's like totally. 


At the top of my mind as well. And it dovetails nicely just into like, kind of the fusion of between like Typical growth channels because like Community is, like, in that marketing realm, right? Like and it's but it's also a help Channel, it coaching Channel and, and one a one-to-many, your support of Coach. Exactly. And it needs to be moderated and needs to be like, discussions need to be facilitated and all this stuff, but I think so, I think channels are really interesting because you have to, and I'm going to also use this to segue into that follow-up question about. Where are you? And how are you collecting this data? Do I agree 100% with what you're saying if you have to meet your customers where they are? 


And so that channel, what channel that they prefer is going to depend on, like your industry is going depends on your vertical. It's going to depend on. If you have a product LED Growth Company versus to be specifically like product LED Growth Company versus like more of like Enterprise or if you do both like because you have an Enterprise segment and like more product Leche. A segment. And so, like, for example, for us like, we have, we work with Hollywood film studios and people love the phone. So, like, we like people who just love the phone. You have to make the phone a channel that is not typically super popular and customer support for product LED growth companies. The other thing is when you have an Enterprise segment like honestly, most of my day is in coaching calls and face-to-face. Zoom calls, working through problems and helping people, like troubleshooting how to organize their account, or how to, how, to, structure things so that they can accomplish certain workflows. 


And so it's like for us most people are reaching out by email. We don't have any social media presence at all, but our customers are not there. Like, I mean, honestly, like so many times I try to, like, make friends with my customers on LinkedIn and like, I can't even find them. And so there. It's just not the channel for those types of conversations. However, they all expect to have a Cadence needing they all expect to have, you know, be able to jump on a screen share if they need to work something out. So to go into that data. The question is, how are you? And where are you collecting this data? I think the most important thing for making these sorts of cases is essentially aggregating all of your conversation data, no matter. ER, what channel? 


It's from if it's on the phone if it's in chat if it's in social media if it's in the email aggregating, all of that into one single source of cosmic, solid interactions. Yes, interactions are conversational truth. You will. And then use that to you. Can. Then going back to what you were saying before about segmentation as well. Customer segmentation is super, super important to segment or use all of that data and segment it by, for example, an operational process. So like we have a high-touch process for Enterprise and then we have a low touch velocity process for, you know, like for lower complexity customers. So we segment it by that and then we segment it by and then we segment it by personalization segmentation. 


So for example for us, that's a use case like how they're using. The product is going to be personalized. And then also just kind of different. Things for us about their verticals. Like whether or not, they're like reality, or if they are episodic, or if they are, you know, a feature that has some differences to it as well. And then the other quadrant is what it's like like their role in what they're doing because how admins perceive the product is different from how, workspace you know, the collaborators are contributors perceive the process product which is different than how the like viewers perceive the Which is like almost like a different kind of user Persona. So when you can aggregate all of this conversation, all data in one place, then you can segment this data in all of these ways and the piece that's usually missing for the support team.


What's so important is revenue. So you need to be able to take this conversational data that you're having of all this, these customer interactions in all these different places. Put that in one place and then put that in a place where you can either pump it into Like some people know it helps get, we use looker at Moxie and we, you know, we have we were a start-up until like just very recently when we required it. So like we were just, you know, putting our cross-dressings are conversational data and HubSpot with the revenue because we were tracking our deals in there because we didn't have, we don't have an automated process around that but just wherever you need to be able to cross-reference this, all of this conversation data, have its 


Goodbye. Operational segment and also personalization segment and then cross-reference that with revenue. And if you can do that, that's when you can start getting insights into seeing Trends emerge, and it's important to cross-reference your support KPIs and your conversation Trends and all of the data that you do on the support side with how that impacts Revenue because then you can start making those lines, right? Like you can make those lines that when our reply time goes, And we lose money when our satisfaction rate goes down. We lose money. And or like, because people are like, so we need to work on internal enablement to make sure everybody's an expert in knows what they're talking about. We need to properly resource this so that we can staff this because like people expect to have answers within 2 hours or 15 minutes if it's an urgent issue and we need to be able to accommodate that. 


And if you don't cross reference, that traditional support, KPIs with Revenue, It's like you can't make any of those arguments and so just having a place where that's possible is probably the very first step to yeah, and the other dimension to it is the business model itself, which is what you touched upon where SAS companies come up with freemium models. And actually, that's not just a B2B phenomenon, b2c phenomenon these days, you get salons asking for memberships, right? So and building on top of it. So definitely I think this does This model has an impact on what a CS person does concerning taking on how much responsibility for the cross-sell or the upsell is, providing the value of the product to the End customer Etc. 


So, I think it would be great to take this and see my bear on the b2c side. How have you seen that? Stolen up. So this kind of SAS model goes into B to C and how you have seen taking care of those customers. Why depends on how it depends on where this vertical sits in the organization? I've been in organizations where it sits on the post-sales side, which is a little more difficult. There are other hurdles to jump across to work closely with sales, but then I've also seen this, you know, there it depends on the structure door where they feel like there is a value there, right? And it's easier to facilitate than the 360 feedback move. 


If you're on the forward side and work more closely with the market and sales. And so depending on what that is in Australia, I'll give an example. If you're on the second part of that or the first part I should say, it's really about just again delivering on the promise and making sure that there's this whole seamless and frictionless interaction post-sales because that quite frankly is where your network effect begins. And people are going to brag and share with others about their experience and whether it's wrong or indifferent, the product may become. Secondly, there's no, I just had a fantastic experience. Oh, by the way, the product is great. The platform is great. The service is great. But man, they take care of you. That's where that Network effect and where you can contribute to that beyond the product. 


But if it's only another side, the way to facilitate that is to work very closely with sales, right? And make sure I'm not just sales by the but also your product teams, right? Whether it's the platform or the engineering side and say, Hey, listen, here. We are the voice of the customer here. The things that we're hearing and saying here are some opportunities that we think might be a value-add, and either contributing to or including in anything that's in this product roadmap going forward, right? And so you can only get better and better, but that does get require that one you lead the way and change management to that, second you're very good at building relationships and three, you gain the trust and so, therefore, you have the data and the know-how which is the Art Science resources to facilitate that and they get it because I've been to the day, it's really about making sure that we grow, whether it's the daily, average user weekly, average monthly, average users product, adoption optimization, whatever those metrics are used to measure. 


The idea is to grow that and that's our contribution. If in fact, we can contribute to that now if you Have done well and established these relationships. You have gained the confidence and the trust of those who are typically quantitatively driven and very technical, right? If you can gain that, that respect, that footing in that relationship. Now, you guess what you've gotten pulled in earlier? In this product roadmap, you get greater visibility, right? And therefore you can prepare and plan better as it pertains to developing workflows and escalation paths and anticipating those things that may occur. When it is lost, what I've seen on the other side of the house is if that hasn't occurred. Remember I said those are larger hurdles. 


If you're on the other side of that post-sales side. Now you're scrambling at the 11th hour to create that frictionless and seamless and delightful experience and now you bear the brunt of trying to catch up, right? You stress the word, the team, and the vertical out all these other things and then you finally catch up. But guess what? There's another product coming, right? Yeah. Depends on where you structured and how it's structured. Think this is part of, you know, in with us. I think this is part of the challenge for us. Particularly. If you're on that post-sales side, how do you communicate this value proposition? We have a jump start. We've had a springboard called the pandemic, in? 


Folks, know that experience is important. But now are you going to capitalize leverage that and keep that voice as loud as it is not as loud as it was then today.  So that folks will understand and know how to connect those dots and make sure life. Daddy's here. Yeah, mon, before you go on this. Could you say the same thing? What if Matt was talking about this bigger size company? I think it would be wonderful to hear it for much smaller-sized companies and how the same thing can be implemented within a very small size. Well, we are very small. So it will not be so okay. So first of all, I want to say that I love what you said about value-added. Herbs because honestly, I think when people get icky angry about the idea of and cross-selling it's because they feel sleazy like they're selling something that a customer doesn't need. 


But actually, I would argue that you're the best. When you're in custom-like post-sales customer-facing teams or you were just working closely with the customer. You are in the best position to recognize when something is a value-add. So, you know, when I was at help Scout, for example, you would get into these situations where people would have these messed up situations with how they're using tags, and they were using tags the way that you should be using custom fields, which is on a higher, tier 2 plan. So, it is more of, like recognizing these problem areas. And being like, Oh, actually, I can deliver more value to you. You have an easier time with this product. I'm helping you fix a support problem, but it happens to be something that is more money. Look, it's not, like, I don't Like to think about it as upselling or cross-selling so much is, it's recognizing opportunities that you can increase value for your customers who already are like loving and adapting your product and finding ways that they can, you know, just it's I think of it as like helping them more. Just helping them more. And so the way it's so okay. 


So we're in a very small team and it's funny because like I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of scaling but or also like Potentially mapping this to how things would work in a large organization because I think it's considerably easier in a small organization because like the way that we're structured is we have so I have a team of six and I'm one of them. So technically we have a high high-value team and a high-velocity team like a high-touch team and a high-velocity team, but my high-touch team is really like one person. Is handling the high-touch enterprise process. Assisted by me as his Superior and like, help-help her helper in ways that I can. And then we have a high-velocity team. 


Now, the high-velocity team currently has four people that are spread out across time zones and I strategically hired people who are both excellent. Technically and also love coaching and educating and teaching people and helping people solve problems. Because I honestly think education is the new sales and I don't think sales is a skill set so much. It's a strategy. It's all just about putting the people in front of the customers at the time to help them solve a problem. Which to me is like we're this problem-solving team. So as you scale, yes, I agree that some people are going to be more interested in having more customer-facing conversations, and then there's the other kind of people who are going to be more interested in doing things like the Nitty Gritty. 


Deep dive troubleshooting stuff now because we're strategically placed across time zones to be able to deliver a 24/7 exported support experience. Everybody's a little bit of both. But also, I hired people whom I think can be essentially the heads of these different types of Specialties. So the types of Specialties we break out into our product growth operations and engineering. And So eventually the engineering He will be a little bit closer to like that tier 2 technical type of support, of, like more, like the people who just are like, really good and really into troubleshooting as they will do it, and it's great. And then the people who are on the growth side are going to have more of the customer-facing conversations, but what it is more about for me is unifying tools and processes in a way that you can create a seamless experience and that's hard when you have completely different departments because they use different tools. They have different KPIs. case They have different goals. The differences are just like having different processes. 


And so when you have that is you fraction all you fractionate fragments. I don't know you break apart all your data and when you break apart all your data and you have all these hurdles and handovers, you also break apart the customer experience and create friction, and it's not like the cut. Is it Because it's like it's all internal friction? But that internal friction. It's like when you're having a bad day and like people can tell and it has nothing to do with them. It's just like customers feel, the internal friction that's happening between these like roadblocks and silos between departments. 


They feel it. Even if it's like a year, internal teams don't realize that the customer is feeling it. That's when you get things like, I don't know whom I should reach out to, for this. I don't know what it's like. This is, you know, like people who feel shuffled around because they ask their salesperson a question or like, let me get me to support. And then suddenly the person, even though they're in the evaluation stage, wanted to add one more angle. To what you're saying that angle is, you're looking from support out. There is also from other teams in which is, you know, one of the things that I've seen that's been done very successfully and that teams that I have are bringing in And the different teams and have them rotate into support. Hmm, right? 


So that's a fabulous thing. It's like, yeah, so both it's looking from support out and outside and I think that's exactly what you're bringing up. Absolutely. I'm a huge advocate of whole company support and I honestly want as many people as possible to pay attention, collaborate on, and like reviewing support in the business as much as possible. But like, I'm that's that can be a harder sell but I think, but the nice thing about having these like Liaisons and these arms that go into the other business, is it also creates a nice environment where then like, if you need to, like, if you need to hire a new product manager, that's like, maybe on like on you know, doing a product, you have like an expert who's already been working with this team completely. 


So it is almost like a support organization. Like I don't say a training ground because Self is so complex since it, I mean, it's viable, like, lifetime goal be like, I mean, that's my lifetime go. Like, I love that work. But it is also for people who are invested in support and have these other interests like marketing or product or engineering. It puts a product expert in all of those existing, like a product and customer expert who already has all of that, internal knowledge of that stuff into those. Parts of the business. So, yeah, it's also just a great way of making sure that you have, like, when you need new Talent, you're recruiting Talent, who are already Experts of your customers, and that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. This conversation is going so fluidly. 


They still have two more topics that came up that we needed to cover. Let's see and I think to augment this one. will be great because it's bigger. It's also more. So I'm sure geographies and the globalized nature of companies add a factor to all of this, right. So just by the fact that the company is very Global doesn't mean things have to be decentralized. Our centralized areas cater to the geographies. What is your thought on it? Let me just want to repeat back your question before I was to make sure that I answered properly. And so you're saying there's a thought that things do not need to be catered if they are if you're a global company. Is that what I heard? Do you say? No. No, I was a global company. 


Is the catering go-to words, a centralized model versus a decentralized model because there are cultural and other nuances that are very specific to geographies, right? So how much of that is important. And versus the culture of the company and a centralized way of doing operations or supporting our support operations. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, grey. Appreciate it. Thanks for reading. Thanks for the clarification. But so, let me start by saying two things can be true at one time. Right? And so it doesn't have to be black and white either or it can be together. Right? So, if you think about a plus sign in the equation, and it's adding to, and so I, what I would say is this, while the company culture and what it stands for, right, that that Ethos right. That mission statement. Those tenants and values that an organization stands for should permeate every factor and every interaction whether it's business or customer B2B or B2C.


That being said there is this, there's this profound confirmation, that's in place. Now that you have to find this. Happy medium with personalization and part of personalization. Includes. Right, and stuff, you know, I don't want to be or be perceived or be presumptuous and say, because we're our company when you go to go through my checkout cart, or you go to get help. It's going to be all-English, i.e. King's English, right? And it's going to be in US dollars and I'll leave it up to you to convert, whatever that may be. If you're going to buy some, that's absolutely the wrong take. And so localization means just that now, but you can, let's be very clear. 


You can still meet the criteria, Right? And the requisition of being scalable, right? Because now you're talking about the 80th percentile of what you do should be replicable, right? And then you use that, twenty percent for those nuances, that I give you a very explicit example when you're talking about support and your help if you're talking about those who are in Asia that she was East Asia in particular. They're very driven by self-service. They're very technically Savvy. And in fact, quite frankly. If we must be honest with ourselves. They're ahead of us when it comes to early adoption. Right? And so, therefore no one's looking to pick up a phone and contact you, right? 


They want you to make sure that you have enough content, your fa Q's are Stellar, or if at the very most I can reach you by virtual or real chat at best. Let's contrast that with, if you're a truly global company and you go to Latin America, Brazil, very specifically, why Brazil? Because they're the only Portuguese-speaking country, everyone else speaks Spanish, and some shape form, or fashion, which lets, you know, there is a nuance and a differentiation in and of itself. And so, if you go to Brazil, their culture is very concierge, feel White Glove hand holding nothing wrong with that, that just happens to be the way that culture likes to operate. So, therefore you need the opportunity for folks to either contact, someone establishes a voice. Okay, real live chat or a quick turnaround or SLA, whether it's an email or social media. And so the point I'm making here is, if you are truly Global, there is no one-size-fits-all albeit. 


You do want the pillars and your foundation to permit. All of your interactions. You have to be considerate enough. You have to remove the arrogance that we're going to make people adapt to us. We went downtown. And then you're Going to address and approach each one and each interaction respectively. Now, let me close with this. I think this is a nice cherry on top. If you will, you still have to find this happy medium between human interaction and automation. The right should not be the only driver. It is a variable in a key driver model, but it should not be the end. All to be all because if you're using cost own, 


You're going to fail in several Mrs. Wright that will offset any W's that you get in other places where you can use that mouth. 100%. So I like, okay, you seem to touch on so many things that I'm like, so on the same page with you and I can't wait to talk about it. So first of all, I frequently say you have to help customers the way they want to be helped. So that means yeah exactly. Like if you need to have an able mint and resources and videos and guides and the like all the in-app stuff for the people who want to be helped that way, which is like I mean like 50 percent of customers like to prefer to have like that sort of help at least from my direct experience. 


And then if you optimize on that way to be able to help the people that want to be helped that way. Then you can. And then you have time freed up for the people who do need the hell of hand-holding and they do need to jump on the coaching calls and they do need to have like A strategic discussion about how they're going to apply this product to accomplish their goals. So 100%, they're going back to localization though, and also, cultures and everything. Oh my gosh, that's so like I have so many feelings about this. 


So as you might have mentioned, as I might have mentioned earlier, I have team members that are across time zone and that is A to give Global support, but be the reason I'm so adamant that support in any organization should be remote even if the rest of the organization is not, I mean unless you have like a bajillion dollars and you have offices in like a hundred thousand different countries, is exactly what you're saying in terms of cultural Nuance because when you hire people who are in a geographical region, and of course, there are variances like poor like Brazil. And you know, the rest of Latin America is going to also be different culturally, but if you hire people in geographic regions, they're at least a little bit closer to what the expectations are culturally in handling these conversations. I know I did do a conference in Europe and everyone was like, you're very American. It's a very American approach and I feel that. way but I have Katya and Belarus who is like very like that Eastern 


Europe, you know Centric and so it's like it's very in love if we hire someone else in you know, and other areas like I have someone in New Zealand we are probably going to get some more film in production work in like Japan. And so that is you know, I'm going to need to hire someone who's Japanese because it is super important to be able to understand those cultural nuances. And no one is going to do that as well as people who are from there. Yeah. It's, you know, the kind I think to squeeze in one more topic. That's thank you for the globalization inside because I think these days every even start-up starts off Global, right? So the customer is our Global. So at all, companies and all business models are Global. I have globalized these days. So that perspective is very helpful. 


We talked about models. We talked about how to advocate for growth through support. We talked about how the customer experience portion is in the middle and everything else around the companies tying into it. What kind of people do we hire? And what kind of qualities are important? We talked about the compensation that comes in the center. How have you guys seen it? Play from everything from resources to onboarding? Outsourcing Etc. One of you can go first. It's easier to have resourcing conversations if you are tying dollar amounts to like, essentially, if you own a revenue number, like, if you own that retention revenue, or if you own expansions, if you own renewals, if you own for more companies, child a paid conversion. Sometimes it is in that realm of like support but also sits like that sort of customer-facing team, sort of world. If you own one of those numbers, Then you mean that is how you're not perceived as a cost center because you're literally bringing in revenue and you can tie it back to the work that you're doing. I think that's super. That's like that's the first step. Now. I can say personally from a resourcing perspective, our velocity team. Is probably between like 50 and 80 K and then our high-touch team isn't like the 100K range. If it were up to me. 


The last City the team would also be 80 100 K like purely. But I think I kind of like getting there. I don't I might get in trouble for giving these numbers. I don't know how but I'm trying to slowly make those cases kind of like Bridge those gaps together. A lot of it though does have to do with examples, like the high touch, the high touch team of one, and it's closer to the skill. Sets are closer to account management or Enterprise customer success management. And those salaries from a market perspective, tend to hit a little bit higher like I know everybody whom I hired on my team. They got a relative again. I don't know. I might get in trouble for saying this but got a red, a relatively significant pay increase from where they were coming from. 


I think that the other thing is too, is like, I again, I don't know. I have no idea if I'm allowed to say any of the stuff that I'm saying, but I'm just making sure that I'm okay. So I was just like, oh my god, do you want to do it? Yeah, bring the public via a yeah, bring up yourself and ask. What do you want to comment on? While most Gather her thoughts and then we do a wrap-up. Sure. going How's that to take you to an adage? My grandfather used to say you get what you pay for? Yeah, that is not and so fundamentally the days of just putting what's in seats. 


If you're sincere and true about what this customer experience truly means, then you have to incorporate agent experience. Right? And these are the folks who are going to be supporting that experience that you're designing and Energizing and have the vision for. So what does that mean? It means you have to get involved a lot. Earlier in this process, your scope has increased in some roles. I have had vendor management and as a result, it is fantastic. So now I get help deciding, not only, what bpos we partner with, what gets involved up to what that profile should look like for hiring said folks, right? But if you don't own that and you still live, I'll go back to the change management piece, right? You have to have some influence. Most have to gain by and you have to create a narrative and a story on why all of this is important, all the way from deriving or building out that job description. Looks like you're going to get what you pay for. 


And so if you're talking about having this higher frictionless, seamless multi-channel, real-time meet SL lays kind of experience, then you have to hire the folks that can help you do. This is called an investment. You just need to make sure you're getting a Roi on it. If you're coming from a cost perspective which by the way as finance, major P&L management, and budgeting is everything but you need to just make sure that you have a Roi on that what you're going to expect you'll get it back tenfold whether that's through met for net Network, effect, morality cross-sells, upsells retention and or loyalty. 


If you invest in all of the folks that are going to help you drive and deliver. The liver that customer experience that you design. So again, I'll close with this. You get what you pay for. I love that. Yeah, you truly get what you pay for yourself. Truly. You also get what you strive for. So, what we are talking about here is that customer support experience can be defined in multiple ways. And we got the strategies that we needed to do more. I was going to close, but you have seen a quick comment if you have a comment. That is not related to directly actually giving numbers out because I probably shouldn't have done that. So everybody just forgets that I said anything but I will say to that point if you get what you pay for it is. Also when support is treated as a cost center, it becomes 1, and here's how if you are not I mean product experts are expensive, empathetic people who are a great problem. 


Solvers are expensive like people who like and People can solve these problems and building resourcing to create enablement and videos and guides like all of that stuff costs money. And if you are not investing in that, then you get hundreds of support tickets, then if you're like not building those feedback loops and listening to sport. Then you get hundreds of support tickets. If you're sending your emails with no replies and customers are super frustrated because they try to reach out and they have no idea how to because you're guarding your Tech channels then it becomes a cost center because people just drop off and you never see them again. 


Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. I want to do it. I will want to finish quickly. It was excellent to hear your perspectives on the growth through support. I think anyone contemplating the question of should support leaders advocating the Revenue generation portion, have some tips that they could gain take home. So thank you both more. Thanks, agreement. Thank you. I appreciate it. It is a humbling honor. Yeah, it was so wonderful to talk with you. The experience that I will continue with. The next one is going to be Thursday, the 24th. Same time. We will iron out all the glitches, the technical glitches. We had today outside of that. There are some specific newsletters blogs. Stuff that we and we will be transcribing. 


This discussion also and getting it out to everybody who extended interest and there have been quiet and we will continue the discussions. Both in slack and the LinkedIn channels. Thanks, everyone. Thanks. Bye. Thank you. Bye. 

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